Stories
Bits of wisdom, vicarious or otherwise
Memories
Flashes of the past, some burnished, some raw Fire is at the center, remember:
Warm Too Hot Red Purple Underbelly of Tongues Drinking the Night (you know what I mean)
Its all a poem, really. I mean
"in Reality" Poetry is a life with alliteration and careful edits
that always go astray when they must not
be held by break, stricture, or deceit. Truth, in a scent
(innocent?) or in a sense?
Whatever
We all have our own pieces of the epic that is our family. I see this section as a place to begin fitting those pieces together. Leaded glass, a quilt, tapestry - see it as you want and are able. Not only "big" issues and insight, rather a place for the minute, the seemingly trivial.
What do you remember?
14 comments:
I have many memeories but as I have learned my memories are far different from anyone else in the family. For some reason I think my memories are spot on compared to everyone elses. Just joking do not want to add to the elitest personna I have spun for myself.
I think the questions myself and my cousins should have will be more enlightening to the history of our family. Question one. I should have figured that my grandparents names were not real. Was I the only cousin to not know this and why was it not talked about? Maybe the reason a true family tree has never been grown.
Question 2. This has nothing to do with our family but, how do you yell at the mailman for just throwing the mail on the entryway floor without the fear of my mail getting "lost" on a regular basis?
Should be your mail. Sorry mom.
Hey middleman, glad you are joining in.
Not sure which "names" you are talking about, my parents had many names. I know our surname was invented and that there are likely many stories as to why. Unfortunately, those that had the deepest insight into these issues are no longer among us.
Name-changing was not that uncommon among the immigrants of that time. Fear was one motivation. All were moving to a strange new place, filled with many people that were very different from them; some of those "others" might harbor racist sentiments, although many did not. One way to be identified by "others" is to use your "ethnic" name, so many immigrants decided change their names.
But, I'm probably just talkin' out of my a**, so why don't you give us a bit more background on your concerns?
Ann Okar and Charles Okar. Those are the names I am talking. Those were not their birth names. I know why names were changed.
I do not really have any concerns about the subject. I just dont understand why it was something that never came up when I was growing up. Why did my grandparents leave both of their families and move to D-town?
As for memories, pick a subject and I will tell my tale.
No advice about the mailman?
Mailman: It never pays to piss off service personnel. Is it only your mail, or everyone's? A better approach may be more friendly. Did you ever meet the person?
Names: I don't know what the birth names of my parents were, or why they would have been changed. I do know that record-keeping was more lax and not as important in the "old" days. It may well be that they did not even know what names were on their birth documents.
My father was pretty open with me (as far as I know) about our family name and how it became "Okar". But, who knows how "official" the change was. Its not until the rise of the computer that such legal records could easily be traced. Folks could pretty much change their entire life if they moved to a new town and started over.
As for why it was not discussed, it could be that the issue was no big deal, or maybe they had some deep dark secrets that they wanted to keep hidden. I suspect the truth is quite banal.
As I understand the move to Detroit, it was driven by my Dad and his desire to have a job that did not require so much time away from his family. Besides he had no family to leave, all of our Chicago relatives are from my mom's side. Her family never forgave her for leaving, or taking up with a Lithuanian from the wrong side of the tracks. Most of my childhood summer "vacations" consisted of going to Chicago and sitting around watching some ridiculous baseball game on TV, while my mother argued with various family members. My dad hated the trips, but loved my mother. Eventually, he could see that I was bored to death, so we'd go to the Shedd, or Museum of Science and Industry, then pick mom up later.
No wonder they never spoke of this to your generation, I sure they'd rather have forgotten about it.
Any insight from my older siblings?
I never thought it was a big secret. I can always remember knowing that Okar was not our surname. My dad told us that he wanted to change it back before he had kids, but never did. The only name change I know of from Papa and Busia was Busia thought her middle name was Pearl. Her mother had always told her that this was her middle name, but when Busia was looking at her birth certificate saw that it was something different. I do not remember what it was, but it was her sister's middle name. Busia told me that her mother must have switch them by accident and that she was not going to change it. She liked it the way it was.
I was under the impression that Papa's dad had his name changed when he immigrated.
I bring all this up because in St. Cashmere, they are buried in a family plot and when you get the plot coordinates from the office the names are very different.
I guess I do not see the animosty between my Busia's family and my Poppa.It is also many years after the fact though. I have always been totally accepted and very comfortable around the Chicago family. I see these people as the group that traveled and took care of many things for the Okar's in your hours of need. They talk fondly of Poppa and the times spent together. There obviously had to be some forgiveness at some point.
There once was a value to watching sporting events. It was not always the media whoreshow we see today.
It is funny your remeber arguements during your summer "vacations" I remeber these same arguements during my christmans, thanksgiving, and easter "vacations".
It is only in the last few years that our family has begun to loosen up. Peple in the family are now begining to accept and embrace the traits they inherited. A few people still lag behind. Progress is being made everyday.
I guess I was just blind to many things growing up. I was able to mostly keep my innocence to a very late age. I did not know that the things taking place everyday were much different than anywhere else. I did not know the right questions to ask or even that there were really any questions to ask.
UD, I understand I will be seeing you in about a week. Cant wait.
Wow, you cover alot of ground.
I'm not surprised that your generation didn't "see" the conflicts between my mother and her family. The "Chicago Family" you know are the children and grand children of the folks that gave your Busia and Poppa headaches. As I understand it, the issues were mostly with her parents, not her sibilings, or their children.
I don't know what you mean by "taking care of the Okar's in an hour of need", I've never gotten much help from the "Chicago Family". I don't hold anything against them. They just don't register in my mind when I think about my family.
I'm a bit confused, Middleman, were my parents still arguing about leaving Chicago when you were visiting, or were the arguments about other topics?
Yeah, we are loosening up. That's a good thing. But it has limits, for instance:
Why is it just you and I on this thread?
So, you are coming to MPLS, soon? With Chopper, I guess. It will be great to see you!
Let me see if I can help with the names. As we all know when Poppa's dad came here from Lithuanian his last name was Aukusitus (I probably spelled it wrong). He went to work with the DPW. He worked with all Irishmen. They (as Poppa told the story) could not pronounce our last name, so they gave him the name Okar. At that time you did not have to have your name legally changed I guess, so they just became Okar. As for Poppa having a different name. He was born Francis Casmir Okar. Poppa was only I believe when his dad died. So I am pretty sure he did not have the AU last name when he was born. Why it changed to Charles Francis is anyone's guess. He did not even know why or for that matter that he was born with a different name until he started looking into his dad's history in Chicago. Aunt Mary R. found some old time cards from that time. Anyhow it was a common thing back then. Busia was born Anna (something I think like Anasatsia) I will look it up when I have few minutes. Again it was just something that happened. Years ago I did look into the AU family history and found a few famiy in Lithuania with the same last name, but have not done any thing with it. When Busia died and Pat was here he took some of the information and was going to look things up.
One of the reasons that there is no family history from Poppa's side is his whole family died early. Aunt Mary Agnes is the only one who ever saw out Grandma okar. His brother died at at young age, he had never married. His sister died at a very young age (Bernice) she was hit by a car. I think she was like maybe 9 or so.
The Chicago group did help mom and dad when they needed things. But, Busia and Poppa "babysat" for all of Aunt Helen's children for years. Busia actually helped raise them as their father died when they were young. So they were kind of like a mom and dad to them.
Uncle Dave was right about why we moved to MI. Poppa used to travel all the time. There were times he would be gone 4-6 weeks selling his goods. The company offered him the job (run it) here in the warehouse and he would not have to travel.
Poppa used to say the we (his kids and wife) were his family. He would do anything to spend more time with us. Busia of course did not agree. This was the result of many arguements of our childhood. (espically around the holidays.)
Maybe when Mary Agnes gets on this Blog she can help with any futher history.
As far as not speaking about it. I think it was just no big deal. It was just what it was.
(Aunt) Liz
Liz/Dave/Molly you have it all correct as far as I know. Except, I believe Dad was born Auksuitis. I will always believe my Busia's move had something to do with the Holocaust and maybe even it is the reason Dad's family moved to America. Family history was never a big subject. Another reson I believe it was a difficult subject to discuss. MA
OK...I have no idea what I am doing with this blog. I have had a terible time getting "here". Hopelly when Bart gets here he can help me. It would be fine to be back here next year or even sooner. We have LOTS of room. It has always been my dream to have us all here for holidays...I have more favorable memories of early holidays than most of you and I miss "us".MA
MA: set a book-mark, or a favorites, whatever AOL calls them.
On the holocaust being the reason for our families coming to the US. The timeline does not support that idea, as our grandparents arrived in the US closer to WW 1, and the holocaust was still decades away. Of course, the ethnic repressions in Eastern Europe had earlier roots, but the "holocaust" is a definite event.
I don't really feel much "loss" from not knowing our family history. We came from eastern Europe, that's good enough for me. Ironically, I can trace the nonchalance about my "ethnicity" to the Ethnic Festivals that they used to have on the Detroit riverfront when I was a kid. Mom and Dad used to take me there for the Polish festival, among others. No matter which "ethnic group" was being "honored", the food was always basically the same: some sausage, some potatoes, beer, and Coca Cola. The service people often dressed up in "ethnic" garb, but the people cooking and cleaning were always hispanics. It was a sham.
hey chopper here...super glad to see everyone..I had alot of fun...the fire was great, now the blog keeps it burning...nice to hear everyone version of the stories...thanks to all...lets keep it going...2010 out in portland...namaste
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