Here are some of the highlights of the 2009 Reunion:
We all arrived at Mary and Jerry's on Saturday. (Or the rest of the family that was not there on Friday). Don showed up for a short time. We truly missed members of the Greg and David Okar familes.
The weather was a bit nippy, but we managed not to have rain.
We had a great dinner of chicken, venison, shrimp and veggie shis -k-bobs on the grill. We had all the go withs. We were all stuffed.
The little kids had a great time playing with each other and riding Thomas around the track. They all loved feeding the chickens. The adults just talked, as adults do.
We had the grab bag. I must say that it was not as involved as last years. We did have a few exchanges. It was simple. Kids just picked which ones they wanted. Adults had numbers, a corresponding number was then picked and they got to chose there grab bag. What was the memorable "gift".
We did tie dye shirts. How long before the dye comes off our hands??
Bart played with all his nieces and nephews, and of course his cousin Levi. He did "unders" on the swing set, he gave them airplane rides, and ran around with them. We did sit by the campfire. I did not get an updated picture of it.
We raised a few questions. What happens when you sit on a Hebrew National and also who is Bart's friend Bo? Perhaps someone could answer that for us.
Elisa cooked us a wonderful breakfast the next morning. It was right on time. 9:30. Elisa even manged to use the high tech stove.
All in all we had a good time. I would like to pass on the "blue" ball. Any takers. Katherine has come up with some ideas for the next one. It seems as though the month needs to change. October??
I will post the other pictures on the next blog.
What did I miss.
30 comments:
Thanks for the pictures. Sounds like you all had a good time. Sorry to have missed the festivities. Special nod to all those who traveled long and far to join.
I agree, winter will always raise the stakes in terms of traveling.
Don't know what location to suggest for 2010. Doesn't look like there is much chance that Greg or his kids will be involved in hosting. Anyone else care to step up?
Perhaps we just need to give them a bit more time. They are just coming out of moving, starting school, still recovering from a broken foot.
Liz
I will be attending next year no matter the date or place.
UG, I understand your response to UD's comments however, your actions have put in your present postition. I do not know if damned if you do damned if you don't is right. You're family has always been very take it or leave it with family. If there is in an event and you can make it you do, if not you do not. Nothing wrong with that. I just think with the lack of willingness in past years to change plans for family a pattern has been set. I think it would be awesome if you guys hosted next year. I do not see it as anything but a genuine attempt to stay connected and host the family in your fashion. I look forward to it. It was Molly's idea originally so I would embrace any plans/ideas/spin put together for a family get together. If everyone else is free from work be you guys have a job you would be able to sneek away and then return while the rest of us entertained ourselvers.
Most of it just returns to the discussion of priorities. Work or family. If people have a year to plan can we not schedule work around the reunion instead of the other way around?
Enough already!!!
We are family. Like it or not. Does not mean we always have to see eye to eye. Life is WAY to short to argue. I love each of my family members. With each of them I am sure I have upset you one time or another and visa-versa. I hope by-gones are by-gones Do you realize a short time ago, we were our parents. Now WE are the "older" generation. How much time have we left???
We all are busy. Each of us are busy in our own way. NO ONE can discount what the other one is going through at anytime. Walk a mile in someones shoes, then comment. We see each other once a year, if the stars are lined up. We just need to enjoy that. I always enjoy seeing my family members.
Greg, I am not sure how David and Gulin's wedding figures in on this. We had a celebration here for them. You were there.
All of us are in a money cruch. Here I am the only one bringing money in on a consistant basis. The building business is all but dried up. Especially if you draw custom homes for a living. Matt just got a job after being layed off for 6 months. They have a child, house payments and a baby on the way. So I understand, when the money can be made, MAKE IT. Some of us can take time off. We are lucky.
We do not have to stay at cabins. It can be a day thing.
All for now.
ALL MY LOVE TO ALL MY FAMILY MEMBERS. BROTHERS, SISTER, CHILDREN, NIECES, NEPHEWS AND THE THE IN-LAWS.
LIZ/MOM/AUNT LIZ/BUSIA
I would like to say a few things on the subject.
First, Aunt Liz, being as picky as I am with girls I have all the blue balls I can handle, would you please hold onto that one.
Second, the comment about work over family was not meant to be derogatory towards anyone. I would like to say that the generations that have come before have allowed the system to change and emphize money more than family. I did not create this system just trying to live in it. I work 70 hour weeks just like everyone else. I have worked very hard to live within my means.
Third, I think I was also taken into consideration when changing the date. The marathon is in Oct. every year. Also, speaking from both the Cubs fan in me and the business man in I though Oct. was going to be very busy with a long playoff run.
Greg, my feelings on you hosting and all the rest. I think it would be awesome. You said damned if you do damned if you don't. It seems like you never have so how do you know.It seems to me an easy way to once again play the victim card. If you want to do it this year or next then say it. It is what everyone in the family wants. I however would be afraid that six weeks before it was suppose to happen something would come up and you would have to cancel. If you had an objection to the location of the last reunion you should have said something. Not a guilt trip just the truth from my end. You may think it is coming out my bottom end but, you would not be the first in that club. As for the comment on how a service industry works. Sorry but, it is the only industry I have worked in and I have worked just as many if not more 14, 16, 20 hour days than you. I have parties scheduled for six months and a year in advance. People schedule parties for the home opener and St. Patty's day a year in advance. There is regular scheduled maintaince for everything. From what I know it is actually cheaper for your business if you can put your customers on a regular rotation. I would have thought that by now you would have developed some customer loyalty. A loyal satisfied customer would probably be willing to change a carpet cleaning date by a few days if they knew about it six months or a year in advance. Especially if it is because of family. The reunion is the one good thing I blame on my family. Not that there is really much bad I blame on them.
If the comments about blowing my sisters head off are true I am comfortable in saying Greg, you are not allowed at anything I plan and I am sure you finally succeded in true make you parents angry.
Good Luck Dude,
Youre goona need it!
Katie here again,
Bart it was not my intention to make anyone angry by telling what UG and AM comments were toward me in the Patrick situation. It was my intention however to prove the point that ALL should be held accountable for what they say not everyone but UG family. Words have concequences no matter who you are. I am with Aunt Liz and enough is enough. We are a family and like it or not who don't get to pick and choose who are family members are. I am by no means sticking up for UG and his words/actions but he was angry and I know from a parent stand point that I would be angry if someone was attacking one of my children. I could not and would not threaten a member of my family but it just shows that people are different. UG I apologize for bringing your hurtful comments to light but I am not as quick as my mother to forgive. I can not take back what I wrote nor would I same as you can't take back what you said. What you can do is learn from it. What we all can do is learn from this. Our differences as people is what we as a family should embrance and celebrate. The fact that Busia and Pappa clearly raised 4 brilliant and independent thinking children who in turned raised brilliant and independent thinking children should be applauded. In the times we live in it would be much easier to blend in and go with the flow but we clearly don't do that. To many people in this world are afraid to say what they are thinking. I have said it before and I will say it again. If you can't tell you family exactly what you think without being stoned and flogged who can you tell. It means alot to me that my brother has come to my defense and we should all take notes on that....that is family! Bart and I have had our diferences as we all have but we still have each other's back.....would we all do the same for anyone in this family? If you can't awnser yes without hesitation do some sole searching and rethink what is important. I can without a doubt and without hesitation say that I would.....even you UG if you truly needed me I would be there...I mean that with all of my heart!
The comments did not make me mad or even surprise me. I have said it before, I am not a person that believes blood makes you family. Yes I understand cutting people more slack because they are your family. I know I have been cut probably more slack than anyone in the history of man however, I have worked hard to improve myself so the people I care about continue to care about me. I do not want people to always have to cut me slack in the same areas.
I am very torn. I would love to see everyone lovey dovey. I am just having a hard time constantly trying to befriend someone who does not go about or think about things the same way as me. Just so you know Greg it does not mean what you think/do is wrong. It is just that I have a hard enough time getting on the same page with the people who influence my life everyday that, I do not think I have the energy to do it with someone who lives so far away.
Everyone talks about celebrating our differences. How do you do that if you have not common ground to stand on? It makes more sense to celebrate the things that make us similar. If we can figure out why we should be a close, strong family then the huge divides that seperate us now are nothing more than minor cracks.
Why?
If this person actually expressed the intent of shooting you on sight, why would you even consider "being there" for them?
If this person did not share your DNA, would you tolerate this behavior? Do your friends treat you with such scorn?
Why should "family" be a one way street?
Isn't that the real "guilt trip" here, Greg? The one that you rely upon to keep us from questioning you? Is it disloyal of me to ask why you bear such resentment of my success? Why should I feel guilty for having followed through (for the time being) and realized some portion of my potential? Because it makes you feel inadequate?
Well, to paraphrase my esteemed "bro" find a dark corner and relieve your short-cummings in private.
I guess I know where some of my patience for people went. To my sister. Maybe some of this intense desire for family is something I will understand more clearly if I ever become a parent. I love being around my family but am also like UD I will not put up with somethings just because of a blood connection. I would not expect anyone else to do the same.
Kathrine, Portland is in Oregon. That is also my vote. One more thing, don't you ever call anyone back?
Kathrine here,
I am aware that Portland is in OR I have been crazy busy at work helping "birth a new multi-million dollar business". My first client is in WA and they were on my mind.
My desire for family really has nothing to do with my feelings about being there for UG. And I certainly did not get any of your patients...I am pretty sure you stole mine because I hae little to no patients. It more comes from me given up on that hope and coming to terms with UG and his families need to isolate themselves from us. For one I know he would never ask for support from me so it is freely given same goes for his entire family...so again freely given and I look like the better person. UG I know this sound juvenile but I would be there if you ever did really ask.
I apprarently hit the nail on the head when I said that guilt was the only way any of them respond and now they are trying to prove me wrong.....should we have a pole on how long it will last.
Bart I do call people back and I am not making excuses but I am running a little ragged these days I will call you Friday I have taken the day off.
Happy Birthday to my baby boy Elliot....can't wait to see whomever is coming to the party...UG/AM did you get your invite?
Patrick, please do not put me in the same class as our uncles. I think that each time i have seen you in the last two years have been somehting I will, even if nobody else in our family cares about, will always smile when thinking about seeing you and having lunch with you. I would like to think you and your group were very well taken care of. I am sorry that our parents do not get along. we should be the link. Who cares. I think maybe we are the link that brings, if it is worth bringing together, our fam.
Do not swear. Kathrine never did. do not even try to talk about fucked uped fathers. You are right your DAD is not a saint. Neither was our sprerm donor. At least your dna is still around. All that bieng said, I have full access to the family terrace and you will be buried far sooner than my sister. she would get the family plot and you would get the Cal Sag. Just so you know.
Pat, kathrine's children are my god children. Aunt Liz was sticking up for your Mom, my Aunt Mary. Pat, you graduated from Western, I know it is at least the third ranked schol in Mich. when it comes to education. Awesome that you finished, however there is no way anyone is in kzoo is anywhere close to what UD does. Glad you do not name drop to make your life easier. You should have.
I am selfish, will never say I am not. I moved to Chicago and know way more about Maximus and his wife than anyone else. '
All you clowns, you wanna talk trash, how many times have you been to the family plot.Aunt Liz, you and Don bailed, Pat your fam did not even send a rep. I am with the Skajas twice a month.
Arlington race track is a big place.
Pat, my main gripe is that I do not get to see anyone in your fam. I know I could train it to d-town and John would surely take me a game. I have not reached out. I, as ayoung man, child always associedted with you guys more than anyone else in the fam. Your parents have been together the longest and through the worst. I always used them and still do, when it comes to stick-to it ness in a relationship.
I am in the same mind set as Pat. I would stick up for my father in the same situation. We may not like what Gregs Attitude is but he has always seemded to be consitant in his thoughts. Pat, would you please forward the e-mails my sister sent you. I have sonme pretty sweet hair, with this I deal with people thinking I am gay because of the curls.
you said we can all go to hell. How can you say that? Don't tell people you think about my BUSIA and then say that. She wwould have never said that.
All, this being said. Do not tell my sister the things you did. No one cares about Pat. Thousands of people like you graduate every year. I do no tink you know what the phrase done like dinner means, keep running your trap and you will.
Also, your selecton of jobs just got dramiticly smaller.
Hello all,
Mom I am doing as I said but there will be more. bart I know that you did not ask this of me but below I have put the emails between patrick and myself ( a total of 2)as well as between Molly and myself. Patrick I dare you to do the same....oh that is right you wont be able to because they don't exsist. Daily emails what a joke and then I never once called you the term "faggot" I hate that word and wouldnt even have used it on you. But anyway I will included my emails to Molly so that it can not be said that it was through molly I sent them. Patrick, if you are such BFFs with your dad ask him if he told my mother when he called to scream at her that he and your mother could not come to the reunion because if they saw me and they had a gun they would blow my head off. UG I dare you to tell your son the truth for everyone to see on the blog. Also Patrick I hope for your sake that there never comes a day when our paths cross, because you brought my 1 and 2 year old children into this there is a life lesson that you will learn and that is what it feels like to have you ass handed to you by a girl, that is a promise not a threat. Sorry mom...I was fine until I read the part about Elliot and Charlie. Again UG I dare you to tell Patrick the truth about your comments which is clearly what started his rampage. My emails will be posted speraratly so there is no confusion. Thanks Bart for having my back! Kathrine
On Jul 24, 2009, at 11:45 AM, Katie Bass wrote:
Hello Patrick,
My mom said that you would like to speak to me. Thank you for acting like an adult and talking to me instead of going to my mother. First I would like to apologize...not for what I said because I stand behind that but for the harshness. I am beyond frustrated with your entire family and I took it ALL out on you so I apologize for not addressing all of your family members on an indiviual basis. But my issue with you still is it seems you feel your life is to busy to make an effort as if no one else's life is busy. Over the years your family has never made an effort for anything....you in particular havent come to anything family related but you find time to take trips to Chicago. Patrick I stand by my point and my opinion on how I feel your family treat me and the rest of the family. To me family is the most important thing and if they are not there for you in your time of need who can you truly count on? At this point I don't feel I could count on ANYONE in your family if I ever truly needed to and that is sad. I want for my kids what we had growing up, a large extended family full of great memories. At this point my kids don't know who you or anyone in your family is and I wanted to change that at some point in their young lives but after the phone call my mother had to tolerate I could honestly care less. I know this sounds harsh but I am entitled to my feelings and opinions contrary to what you mother and father think. Again I apologize for taking it all out on you but your comments were the last straw for me. You are more than welcome to call me if you still feel the need.
From: Patrick Okar
To: Katie Bass
Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 6:44:41 PM
Subject: Re: It's Kathrine
To start off with. I have been working on a response to you comment for the past day, and I will post it sometime but I want to make sure what I say is correct. It was just brought to my attention yesterday. So when my dad mad the call to his SISTER, due to the nature of your harshness to his son, I had nothing to do with that. FYI. Second I had been thinking since my last post if I would be able to afford missing 20 hours of work to come to the reunion after missing 30 for moving the second weekend of august. I thought it might be fun, but now I am for certain not coming. I figured that you of all people would understand the financial stress missing work would have on a life. Sorry I always have to work weekends in my shitty job. Yes I find time to take trips, that is my vacation time. So you never take time for yourself, and when I was there I did see family, Bart. Who tell me that I am the only one who ever lets him know when they come through town, and I bet that includes you. But my question you you why would I want to spend my time with you all, when have you ever in your life been nice to me? So why until you all have been nice to me would I put myself in that situation again. Sorry this is just a quick response to your message. If you have more question or hate let me know. I am willing to figure this out with you.
Re: It's Kathrine
Friday, July 24, 2009 9:20:22 PMFrom: Katie Bass
To: Patrick Okar
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Patrick do not pretend to know my relationship with my brother. I have not bee to chicago in I do not know how long however I go t pick him up when he is here and he stays with me as well. The fact that your dad called his sister is one thing but to call my mother like I am 2 shows his complete disrespect for me. Then to top it off he calls on Busia's birthday and bad mouths her my mom and me. LOW and completely wrong no matter how you want to spin it. I honestly do not recall a time when I or anyone else in my family was "mean" to you.....harmless child's play yes and I am sorry that you have been so sheltered that it has clearly scared you for life but you will soon find out that the world is not always nice and you are going to have to learn to have thicker skin if childhood games can make you so sensitive. I do make time for myself and that was part of my point on the post. You were saying how much stuff you had going on between school work and moving and that coming to the reunion would let you unwind and have even 1 day to do nothing but relax. I do understand the strain taking time off takes on life but you always have some sort of excuse.....what was it again when Micheal and Val and the kids were here? What about my wedding what was the reason then? I will turn your question about why would you want to spend time with us around on you....why would I want you to anymore? You are my family that is why.....does that matter to you at all? From where I sit and this is only my opinion I am not saying this is truly how you feel but it seems as though it does not matter to you. I will repeat what i said in my email earlier I want fro my kids what you and I had growing up, a large extended family with tons of happy memories. And if you can't count on family who can you truly count on? I know for a fact that if you called my mother and asked her for anything she would give it to you, whether I think she should give you the time of day or not....can you say the saame for your mother and father about me or anyone else in our family besides your brother and sister that is. I don't think you could and be saying it honestly. I am not trying to get into a bashing session with you but the road has to work both ways....we have invited and invited until finally there was no point in my opinion anymore. Iam over having hurt feelings because none of you come to things but I can not stand watching my mom wish she could not care. I am not sure if you even knew I was ever pregnant much less lost a child...I could not even tell you if your parents knew. I know you know that Busia and Poppa would not want this for their family and neither do I but I am done trying to include you all in my life when clearly you don't want to be but for my moms sake rethink taking part in the reunion and please try to talk with your mom and dad. If you all are willing to come and would like me not to be there I will stay away. I see Aunt Liz and Karyn all the time and my brothers will be in town awhile so I will have plenty of time with them. If I never ask you for anything again I am asking you this. Again do not do it for me but for your Aunt who loves you and your father's sister who loves him as well.
From: Molly Jourden
To: basskt7822@yahoo.com
Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 8:08:38 PM
Subject: hello
I wanted to write because I know that there has been some harsh words and actions being used in our families. I want to clear the air and work out any problems that exist between us, just you and me. I don't want to have any animosity between us, so please let me know what I can do to resolve any issues that you have with me. Thanks!
Molly
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 18:37:18 -0700
From: basskt7822@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: hello
To: molly_l_o@hotmail.com
Molly I don't have any new beef with you...it has always been the same and it is the same for every member of your family. I am not saying that you don't care about our family but from where I sit it sure seems that way. As I just told Patrick I have no idea whether any of you three kids knew I was pregnant either time and let alone that I lost a child. I am guessing that you did not because had you known, your real reason for not coming last year would have been a non issue. I know about your situation with not being able to concieve and if you knew about any of my issues with the same thing and having lost a child and what I had to go through to get the 2 I have you would have known you could use me as support.....then there is Karyn she too dealt with the same things....did you know that? I highly doubt it. Molly your family always has an excuse for not being where the rest of the family is and my biggest problem with that is. Not that it hurts my feelings because I am past that but I watch my mom cry and wish she didnt care as much and I am tired of it. Patricks post about having to much to do pushed my buttons and I took it all out on him....I did apologize for that. Not for what I said but that he got all of it. All I wanted at some point for my kids was the same thing we had growing up. A large extended family with tons of happy memories....I do not see your family part of that wish anymore and I have come to terms with that but my mom has not and it is hard for me to watch and then for my mom to have to endure the phone call she did from your father really set me off but I promised my mom I would say nothing to your dad and I won't but my point to that is I appreciate you being adult and coming to me rather than going to my mom I am an adult and should be treated as one. With that said I am also entitled to voice my opinion without being called uneducated. I will ask you the same thing that I asked of Patrick and if I never ask you for anything again please consider this. I am not sure if you were planning on going to the reunion but I ask that you please do...not for me but for your Aunt who loves you and seeing you would mean the world to her. If you all are planning on being there and would prefer that I am not I won't be I am fine with that. I see Aunt Liz and Karyn all the time and Bart and Chip will be in town for a while so I will see them plenty but I would like for my mom and my brother to see you guys. If you could do that I would appreciate it.
From: Molly Jourden
To: Katie Bass
Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 11:27:37 PM
Subject: RE: hello
To start, my real reason for not coming to the reunion last year was because I had an ear infection. It lasted for about 6 weeks and I had to go to about 7 doctors visits to heal it. It caused me to have vertigo and have motion sickness. The medicine that I was on at the time came with the warning to not be exposed to sunlight for long period of time. So when all this was added together it made me unable to come. It bothers me that that is not enough of a reason according to you for me not to come. Yes, I am unable to conceive and this is very hard on me, having children are the thing in life that I want the most. That was not the reason I did not come, but was a reason that would have made it hard on me to come. I am thrilled for you and Karyn being able to have children, it is just that is hard for me to see others that have the thing I want. I am a private person and have not told many people about this issue. You talk about how much you are there for family, how come you have not offered support to me if you knew of my situation. I did know that you lost a child and that you have two children, so do not assume that me or other people in my family do not know what is happening in your life. I will not pretend to know the intimate details, but I do know of the big events.
Our families have never been that close. We came to holidays and that was about it. Now later in life I am able to understand why. My mom was not treated well by Busia and due to that fact my parents did not want to spend much time with her. Instead, we spent a lot of time with my mom's sister, who to this day I am very close with. Pat has lived with her in the past and will do so again in the future. None of this lack of closeness has anything to do with the choices that we made, but rest on the decisions of our parents and grandparents. Yet, due to this I have never felt very welcomed by my dad's family. My dad had a lot of issues with his mother and that caused him to join the army to escape the passive aggressive guilt and comments that were laid on him by Busia. When getting together with the family, my parents remember many of these old feelings and yes we do find other things to do that will not bring back the negative feelings of the past. It is amazing how different everyone can remember the same thing. You loved the time spent with the family, I never felt included, Pat hated being picked on and Bart does not remember spending time with his cousins. It goes to show that everyone has their own point of view.
As for Pat not talking to you, I will defend him. He just read your post this morning after he got your email. He was not the reason my dad called your mom. So do not say he was not adult enough to come to you first, because he did not know about the phone call. If you have issue with the call, take your own advice and be an adult--talk to my dad, not others. My dad did tell me about the phone call and told me that he was not nice, just like you he had enough and went off on a rant. That is about as much as I know on the subject, so I can not say more to defend/condemn him. Back to Pat, you need to remember that he is only 22 and your are right his priorities are in the right order, but what 22 year has their priorities all the way in order. Yet, you have no right to put your order of priorities on him. He is allowed to value certain as more or less important than you, that is what allows us to be individuals.
For a long time it has seemed that you have held a great amount of anger towards our family. On many occasions you have ridiculed us. This attitude combined with what I said above have not made seeing your family a priority. If having a huge extended family is your goal, you need to take some blame for this not happening. Any suggestions that my family made for the reunion were shot down by you, i.e. a different month or location. Also I tried to make up for the fact of being unable to attend the reunion by planning to have an open house at my house. Your first response was that you thought it was dumb for me to do it in the winter because the weather could be bad. I will again apologize that the open house did not happen, but Matt's father was in the hospital and died a few weeks later. I did put my immediate family over my extended family and feel very justified in doing so. If you do not agree with this decision, then frankly I do not care, my husband means much more to me than anyone else and I needed to be there for him and his family.
Now that I have tried to explain the situation from my point of view, I will tell you the biggest beef that I have with you. You appear unwilling to listen other opinions or view the situation from another point of view. When I have written comments on the blog or write an email, you attack me. What you write attacks me on a personal level, rather than commenting on the issue. This puts me on the defensive right away, as it would with most people. I have tried to explain my views in many ways and you have shrugged them off. So, now it seems that you don't care about me, since you are unwillingly to look at things from my point of view. I am not saying that you have to agree with me, but just be open to new/different ideas. I do not ever remember calling you uneducated, if I did than I do sincerely apologize for that. The other beef that I have of you is your hypocrisy. You talk about how well you know Pat--to the point that you have problems with him, but then do not know is sexual orientation. This a direct quote from the blog by you "I am not sure where your family got the "My stuff is more important attitude"." Yet, you listed all the things that you have going on in your life and gave the impression that "your stuff is more important" than Pat's stuff. You have the same attitude and yet use it against Pat.
As for coming to the reunion, I will not be making the trip unless we are able to get past this. And by we I mean you and my entire family. We are very close (that may surprise you that we do value family) and will stand by one another.
Molly
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2009 06:13:14 -0700
From: basskt7822@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: hello
To: molly_l_o@hotmail.com
Molly,
It is your father's fault that we all thought you did not come because of the kids...that is what he told my mom. Sorry about taking your dad at his word. As for lending support.....why should I did you lend me any support or ven a congratulation on the birth of either of my kids....no one in your family did. I invited you and your mom and leanna to my baby shower none of you sent even a card. Why is it that I have to make all the efforts?
As for busia and how she treated your mom and dad....I talked to my mom about this and I remember clearly your mom and dad gave as good as they got....why are you using their memories as your own and as an excuse....times change. And to bad mouth our Busia n matter your beliefs more than pissing me off and is not something I am willing to work past without a sincere apoligy not to me but my mom. I never said Patrick was not an adult...reread your email I thanked him for being an adult and coming to me not my mom. I never blamed Patrick for you dad's call again reread.. Practice what you preach about values and proiorities everyone is allowed to have them with out being called uneducated which you yourself have called me because I had a different opionon than you.
I never once shot down having the reunion somewhere else reread the blog....are you not a teacher dont you teach your kids to know what they are taling about before they say it... I actually did research into other locations to have the reunion. Also never once did I say it was a dumb idea to have you llittle get together in the winter I simply said I would not be there. Frankly it had nothing to do with weather I used that as an excuse....at the time we were not good enough to spend time with in October so why were we in December. I do not disagree with why it was canceled frankly I would have wondered if you didnt cancel it.
I never once claimed to know patrick on the contrary for that matter....I was using what I have going on in my life as point of refernce for patrick and to show he is not the only one with things going on in fact most people in the world would call his list trivial things.. The fact that you feel I attack you on a personal level for the most part is correct how can I not you have made the personal choice not to make the rest of your extended family a factor in your life. I take that very personally. I do take responsiblity for my part in not being close with your family....again I have moved on from any hopes of beingclose with you. I frankly think there are to many hard and harsh feelings not so much between you and I because I can agree to disagree with you in fact I think you and I agree on alot and because of both of us being opinionated and stubborned we are unwilling to fully admit it. However at this point I am not sure I could look at either one of your parents with any respect or anything other that pure and utter discust. I agree that I should be going to them but again out of respect to my mother she asked that I do not. So the ball is in your court on whether you come or not but if you chose not to it is on you not me and if you want to place the blame on me I am fine with that whatever you need to say to sleep at night
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2009 06:13:14 -0700
From: basskt7822@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: hello
To: molly_l_o@hotmail.com
Molly,
It is your father's fault that we all thought you did not come because of the kids...that is what he told my mom. Sorry about taking your dad at his word. As for lending support.....why should I did you lend me any support or ven a congratulation on the birth of either of my kids....no one in your family did. I invited you and your mom and leanna to my baby shower none of you sent even a card. Why is it that I have to make all the efforts?
As for busia and how she treated your mom and dad....I talked to my mom about this and I remember clearly your mom and dad gave as good as they got....why are you using their memories as your own and as an excuse....times change. And to bad mouth our Busia n matter your beliefs more than pissing me off and is not something I am willing to work past without a sincere apoligy not to me but my mom. I never said Patrick was not an adult...reread your email I thanked him for being an adult and coming to me not my mom. I never blamed Patrick for you dad's call again reread.. Practice what you preach about values and proiorities everyone is allowed to have them with out being called uneducated which you yourself have called me because I had a different opionon than you.
I never once shot down having the reunion somewhere else reread the blog....are you not a teacher dont you teach your kids to know what they are taling about before they say it... I actually did research into other locations to have the reunion. Also never once did I say it was a dumb idea to have you llittle get together in the winter I simply said I would not be there. Frankly it had nothing to do with weather I used that as an excuse....at the time we were not good enough to spend time with in October so why were we in December. I do not disagree with why it was canceled frankly I would have wondered if you didnt cancel it.
I never once claimed to know patrick on the contrary for that matter....I was using what I have going on in my life as point of refernce for patrick and to show he is not the only one with things going on in fact most people in the world would call his list trivial things.. The fact that you feel I attack you on a personal level for the most part is correct how can I not you have made the personal choice not to make the rest of your extended family a factor in your life. I take that very personally. I do take responsiblity for my part in not being close with your family....again I have moved on from any hopes of beingclose with you. I frankly think there are to many hard and harsh feelings not so much between you and I because I can agree to disagree with you in fact I think you and I agree on alot and because of both of us being opinionated and stubborned we are unwilling to fully admit it. However at this point I am not sure I could look at either one of your parents with any respect or anything other that pure and utter discust. I agree that I should be going to them but again out of respect to my mother she asked that I do not. So the ball is in your court on whether you come or not but if you chose not to it is on you not me and if you want to place the blame on me I am fine with that whatever you need to say to sleep at night
From: Molly Jourden
To: Katie Bass
Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 12:32:10 PM
Subject: RE: hello
It can be partial my dad's fault about the last reunion, but I told your mom that I was not coming because of my ear infection. You heard about this and choose not to accept it as the real reason. As for the birth of your children, I was never informed of their birth only hear it through the grapevine. If you wanted a direct congratulations, then you needed to tell about their birth. I congratulated your mom because she told me about it. As for your shower, I never received an invitation. The first time I heard of it was when I got a called from my mom. She asked if I got an invitation and I said no. She then told me that she had not either, but Aunt Liz had called to see if we wanted to car pool. I would have send a card and present if I had been invited. So you do not have to make all the effort, but if you want people to know of the events in your life and will hold it against them for not recognizing them, then yes you do need to inform them of the events.
As for Busia and her relationship with my parents, I never pretended that those were my memories. From conversations that I have had with my parents I have heard of the struggles they had with Busia, both parties are to blame. I talked of that only to express the point that there were reasons behind why we did not see each other that much as children and why we are not that close now. I did not bad mouth Busia only talked about a fault of hers. Everyone has faults and that does not make them a bad person nor talking about those faults should be viewed as bad mouthing. I love Busia very much, because of and in spite of her faults.
I do respect your opinions, but I am also allowed to disagree with them and state that disagreement. I told you in the last email that I do not remember calling you uneducated and did apologize for that if I did. So again I truly apologize for saying that.
I will agree that I am very stubborn, but I am not unwilling. I have strong opinions, but am open and want to hear varying viewpoints. I want to understand and work through any frustrations that exist so that we can have a closer relationship. But I need you to understand where I am coming from also.
This is me in a nutshell. I am an introvert. If I had the choice I would spend all my time alone or with a few very close people. I find spending time with a large group of people to be a draining experience. I would prefer to sit back and listen and survey the situation. It takes me a very long time to trust people and open up to them. Telling you all this is big step for me. I love children, if I could still be a child I would, so I choose a career where I could spend my whole day being with children. I am very proud of the job I do and very much exemplify the stereotypical teacher. I am always trying to share the knowledge that I have with others and to learn from them. To many this make me seem like a know it all, but that is not my intention. I only want everyone to be the best they can be. I am very much into finding out the most about myself and those around me, I want to understand everything. On this point I bought a book called Please Understand Me II. It is a personality and temperament sorter. I am what is called an Idealists, more specifically a Healer. This is a link to the website about Idealists, may be it will help you understand me better:
http://www..keirsey.com/handler.aspx?s=keirsey&f=fourtemps&tab=3&c=overview
Let know if the link does not work and I will resend it, Matt is the tech-person not me.
Hopefully that will help you know more about me and where my motivations are. I truly do want everyone to be harmonious, if I did not care I would not be taking this time to connect with you. Please remember that and the fact that we have a lot to overcome and it will take time and compromises from everyone to do this.
With much love,
Molly
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 06:57:29 -0700
From: basskt7822@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: hello
To: molly_l_o@hotmail.com
Molly,
Do not view me not responding as hostile or bitterness. I am a busy mother who does not have a lot time to spend emailing. The fact that you can not take responsibility for you own actions is sad but do not put that blame on me. You are an adult and the fact that you feel that you can not put aside whatever to see your family is your doing not mine. As for your last email I did not respond because frankly I am tired of getting the blame for your lack of interest in anyone but yourself or your family. My mother asked me to be nice but then I read the email you sent her and Aunt Liz. I am not trying to be harsh just honest. The fact that you expected me to call you after having a child is selfish on your part. Surely you could understand why my mom called and not me. I was in the freaking hospital for god sakes. As for my shower blame me that is fine...I sent out invitations and as soon as Aunt Liz called my mom to let her know that you and your mother didnt get them my Mom called your mom to explain. The fact that you spent most of your last email letting me know who you are as a person somewhat proves my point.....you may be an introvert but more that than you are self-absorbed. Family should not be "a draining experience" it should be a loving and welcoming experience. I know you don't feel welcome at my moms house but what has she ever done to you to make you feel that way. My mother and I are different people what I say is not what she feels only what I do. It is apparent that no one in your family is coming for one reason or another and it is no surprise to me. Nothing has changed and most likely never will. The sad part is that my mom and aunt liz still get their hopes up every time. So in conclusion you live your life and I will live mine...should our paths ever cross again you can expect that I will be civil. The one and only thing you need to know about me is I CAN be an adult, I would not be fake but I also would not be hostile or rude.
From: Molly Jourden
To: Katie Bass
Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 12:21:33 PM
Subject: RE: hello
Kathrine,
I am not sure how to reply. It seems that we can continue to talk and still are unable to find a way to move past our differences. You say that I blame you for a lack of interest in the family, but that is not what is happening. The way you view family and the expectations that you have for family are very different than me. Neither way is bad, they are just different. I told you about myself so that you would better understand me, not because I am self-absorbed. I thought by telling you this would let you see that I prefer to have a small close knit group of family and friends. Since, I am not comfortable in large groups, being with a large group of family is a draining experience (it has nothing to do with the people, but the amount of people). I do find it to be loving, but it is very hard for me. If that is something you can not understand, than you will never understand who I am. I am sorry that I am not able to be that extroverted person who can fulfill your expectations of family, but that is not in my nature.
Hopefully you will not see it as self absorbed and will tell me more about you. I only know that you are an adult, hard-working mother of two. I would like to know some of your interests and hobbies, maybe we could find something that we have in common.
Molly
From: Katie Bass
To: Molly Jourden
Monday, August 10, 2009 3:36:32 PM
if we spent more time on this would the outcome change? Really? Your views on family like mine are not going to change and while I like the fact that we live in a country where we have that freedom I also have the freedom to believe that you views on it are completely wrong. Again if we spent more time on this would the outcome be any different....in one word No. You still would not be at the reunion and unless it was somewhere more to the liking of everyone in your family (one of your houses) I don't think any of you would be there. John and your mom and dad at least made an effort last year and I give them credit for that. What you do know about me is plenty and if that is not enough of a reason to want to come and meet the next generation of our family nothing I say at this point will help.
So there they all are....much more chatter with Molly than Patrick....what do you say for yourself Patrick? At least tell the truth or a small part of it if you are going try to start shit.....liars never win they only get in trouble...take that how you ever you want....I know you will.
Kathrine
I am not drunk so hopefully this post is not as laughable as the last.
After reading all the e-mails, one thing sticks out. Molly, hit the nail on the head. It is never going to change. It is an arguement that revolves around two people who have long been dead and are not around to defend themselves. Also, I realize this is something I should have never gotten involved in. It belongs way to much to generations previous to mine.
I know of many examples of why members of the family should be forever greatful for each other and also many of why there are wedges. I am going to start to work harder in the other direction. Make sure my syblings, nieces, and nephews do not have animostity towards me. The family I do share with I love and that is what I am going to try to work with and on!
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